Attorney for accused Kenosha protest gunman says teen acted in self-defense A high-profile lawyer representing the 17-year-old boy charged with killing two protesters and wounding another during demonstrations on the... Who's Online | Find Members | Private Messages
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Kenosha

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1 month ago - Monday 8/31/20 - 3:03:58 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 8/31/20 - 12:54:08 PM Noldor wrote:
The video is not really clear on the first guy he killed. I don't know what happened that led up to that. He clearly acted in self-defense on the second guy he killed IMO.
On Monday 8/31/20 - 1:18:59 PM postallbear wrote:
WTF? He was brandishing the gun the entire time and didn't remain at the scene of the first shooting. Fleeing that scene makes whatever others do to him self defense not the other way around.
On Monday 8/31/20 - 1:39:13 PM CowDung wrote:
I disagree. Fleeing a scene where one feels endangered or threatened is probably the preferred action.

Fleeing a scene where you've just committed a murder makes you a fugitive and other people are going to react to you accordingly
1 month ago - Monday 8/31/20 - 3:19:20 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 8/31/20 - 1:39:13 PM CowDung wrote:
I disagree. Fleeing a scene where one feels endangered or threatened is probably the preferred action.
On Monday 8/31/20 - 3:03:58 PM postallbear wrote:
Fleeing a scene where you've just committed a murder makes you a fugitive and other people are going to react to you accordingly


There you go with the 'committed murder' thing again. Were you there and know firsthand what happened, or are you just assuming 'guy with gun is bad guy' and framing it to fit your prejudiced opinion?

Big difference between 'committing murder' and 'killing in self defense'...
1 month ago - Monday 8/31/20 - 3:57:01 PM EST (GMT-5)
If someone uses a gun on an unarmed person, it's pretty difficult and totally ingenuine to argue self defense. But you do you, CD.
1 month ago - Monday 8/31/20 - 3:59:02 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 8/31/20 - 3:57:01 PM postallbear wrote:
If someone uses a gun on an unarmed person, it's pretty difficult and totally ingenuine to argue self defense. But you do you, CD.

At the very least, you should expect witnesses to follow you if you flee the scene of the shooting.

As CD is fond of saying, it's up to the courts to decide whether what you did was murder/manslaughter, or in self defense. You don't just get to unilaterally declare that and go on your merry way.
1 month ago - Monday 8/31/20 - 3:59:55 PM EST (GMT-5)
I made another post which was quite condescending which i turned around and deleted here.
1 month ago - Monday 8/31/20 - 4:11:58 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 8/31/20 - 3:57:01 PM postallbear wrote:
If someone uses a gun on an unarmed person, it's pretty difficult and totally ingenuine to argue self defense. But you do you, CD.


I don't know if the victims were armed or not- - I thought I read back on page 1 something about the guy being on the ground getting beaten by a skateboard...
1 month ago - Monday 8/31/20 - 4:15:49 PM EST (GMT-5)
...a gun isn't required to inflict lethal force on another person.
1 month ago - Monday 8/31/20 - 4:21:13 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 8/31/20 - 3:59:02 PM birdsong4j wrote:
You don't just get to unilaterally declare that and go on your merry way.


In a self defense situation, it's often unwise to wait around- - it's best to remove oneself from the area and any remaining potential threats.
1 month ago - Monday 8/31/20 - 4:22:26 PM EST (GMT-5)
This is what I mean by not feeding the troll, whatever you say he will come up with some petty response.

It's a pissing contest and he would rather piss the bed than stop pissing.
1 month ago - Monday 8/31/20 - 4:32:58 PM EST (GMT-5)
"it's not unreasonable to think that calls to defund the police are going to be taken as calls for vigilante justice to step in when the police are thought to be no longer able to protect citizens." -cowdung

It is unreasonable. But because we in the US have some misguided cowboy, shoot-em-up fantasy playing though our heads we are prone to act unreasonably.

I'm of the unpopular opinion that rioting and property damage is appropriate provided there are not people being physically hurt. When property is what is respected over life and other protestes are ignored I feel you need to change tactics. I'm of two minds on looting. I don't think it should be done for personal profit, i support the destruction of the goods.

And for the most part its not as though people are being murdered in the streets. Though it seems that the tide is starting to turn.
1 month ago - Monday 8/31/20 - 4:37:31 PM EST (GMT-5)
I agree retreating is probably the preferred action.

I honestly think there may be a split on the charges.

I think it is wholly reasonable to assume that when it's all said and done he's convicted of one count and acquitted of the other. I'm not a lawyer though so who knows. I don't know if each instance has to be decided solely on its on merits or if the event is looked at as package deal.
1 month ago - Monday 8/31/20 - 4:38:21 PM EST (GMT-5)
Speaking of people being murdered in the streets: cops.
1 month ago - Monday 8/31/20 - 4:43:05 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 8/31/20 - 4:32:58 PM Rik_Khaos wrote:
"it's not unreasonable to think that calls to defund the police are going to be taken as calls for vigilante justice to step in when the police are thought to be no longer able to protect citizens." -cowdung It is unreasonable. But because we in the US have some misguided cowboy, shoot-em-up fantasy playing though our heads we are prone to act unreasonably.


I think you are misunderstanding my use of the phrase 'not unreasonable to think...'

My statement does not mean that a 'misguided cowboy' acting on his own is reasonable. My statement is predicting that 'misguided cowboys' are going to take it upon themselves to 'defend the citizens' when they perceive the police as being unable or unwilling to do so.

1 month ago - Monday 8/31/20 - 4:45:44 PM EST (GMT-5)
I am saying that it is not an unreasonable prediction, not that the vigilante's actions are not unreasonable.
1 month ago - Monday 8/31/20 - 4:47:42 PM EST (GMT-5)
Yeah Rik, you misunderstood CD's comment about vigilantes to mean that he supports them.

What he *actually* meant is that we should cater to the whims of the most dangerous people in our society, rather than treating them as what they are: the problem.
1 month ago - Monday 8/31/20 - 4:48:23 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 8/31/20 - 4:47:42 PM birdsong4j wrote:
Yeah Rik, you misunderstood CD's comment about vigilantes to mean that he supports them. What he *actually* meant is that we should cater to the whims of the most dangerous people in our society, rather than treating them as what they are: the problem.


What the drat are you talking about?

1 month ago - Monday 8/31/20 - 5:07:22 PM EST (GMT-5)
Right back atcha...

But with you it's always about what you are NOT talking about when someone brings it up and then you start banging another drum.
1 month ago - Monday 8/31/20 - 5:11:53 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 8/31/20 - 4:38:21 PM birdsong4j wrote:
Speaking of people being murdered in the streets: cops.



I meant by the average citizen. Cops doing it clearly a whole level of different and appalling.

I can agree the prediction is not unreasonable as it's always been there ( think KKK as an example {this is not an exhaustive list clearly}). It's ramping up and I don't think it going to cool off pre-election.



1 month ago - Monday 8/31/20 - 7:23:18 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 8/31/20 - 4:38:21 PM birdsong4j wrote:
Speaking of people being murdered in the streets: cops.

Yes, cops are being targeted and murdered in the streets by BLM maniacs. Thanks for acknowledging that.
1 month ago - Monday 8/31/20 - 10:51:47 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 8/31/20 - 4:38:21 PM birdsong4j wrote:
Speaking of people being murdered in the streets: cops.
[quote]On Monday 8/31/20 - 7:23:18 PM Noldor wrote: Yes, cops are being targeted and murdered in the streets by BLM maniacs. Thanks for acknowledging that. [/quote

Where are all the stories about these dead cops you speak of?
1 month ago - Tuesday 9/1/20 - 6:58:54 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 8/31/20 - 4:38:21 PM birdsong4j wrote:
Speaking of people being murdered in the streets: cops.
On Monday 8/31/20 - 7:23:18 PM Noldor wrote:
Yes, cops are being targeted and murdered in the streets by BLM maniacs. Thanks for acknowledging that.

Did you learn this "fact" from a Facebook post from some group like USA Patriots for Trump, or did you get it the old-fashioned way, in a fwd: FW: Fw: fw: email from your most racist distant relative?
1 month ago - Tuesday 9/1/20 - 2:09:16 PM EST (GMT-5)
1 month ago - Tuesday 9/1/20 - 2:42:59 PM EST (GMT-5)
So some smack talking rent-a-mob jerk.

How many police has he killed so far?
1 month ago - Tuesday 9/1/20 - 2:45:47 PM EST (GMT-5)
1 month ago - Tuesday 9/1/20 - 2:58:43 PM EST (GMT-5)
"Police officers killed surge 28% this year and some point to civil unrest and those looking to exploit it"

"In the wake of George Floyd's death at the hands of Minneapolis police in late May, tremendous scrutiny was placed on policing with peaceful protests broadly calling for reform. But accompanying that was a rise in an anti-police sentiment that, experts say, manifested itself in attacks on officers, patrol vehicles and precinct stationhouses, leaving cops around the country feeling under siege."

https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-of...

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